SPIEF discussed whether AI can replace people in public administration

SPIEF discussed whether AI can replace people in public administration

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The participants of the session spoke about the place of a person in public administration in the era of digital technologies “Governance: between people and data” at the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum (SPIEF). One of the highlights of the event was the dispute between the head of Sberbank German Gref and Moscow Mayor Sergei Sobyanin. The first one believes that decisions in public administration based on data are best left to artificial intelligence (AI), the second one believes that AI management decision making is impossible in the coming decades.

The discussion began with German Gref’s statement about management, in which there is a place for rational and irrational components. “All management is built on two components – this is data-based management, and this part is rational. And best of all, especially in public administration, decision-making should be given to artificial intelligence systems. Artificial intelligence does not understand… why take a bribe, why put it in (decision making.— “b”) “under the table” to lie there for a couple of months, and this is his strong point,” explained the head of Sberbank.

In his opinion, such solutions should be given to automated systems as much as possible. The second part should take into account the influence of social, cognitive and emotional factors on decision-making – people do not always make rational decisions, and here it is still difficult to replace a person – and hardly necessary, he noted. The future is seen by German Gref as follows: people will create automatic decision-making systems based on data and stay where it is necessary to determine goal setting and take into account the social, emotional and cognitive properties and needs of a person when making decisions.

According to Sergei Sobyanin, the machine will make a decision for the machine, but in order to do this in the interests of a person, AI must love people.

“Probably, someday artificial intelligence will make decisions for us, but for this it must fall in love with a person. Can you imagine that? I can’t. If artificial intelligence makes management decisions for us, it will say: “Listen, what kind of people are running around here, why do I need them? What are they on this planet for? Some kind of rubbish,” he said. The mayor believes that it is necessary to use as much data as possible to understand what is happening in real life, but without a person it is impossible to make a managerial decision in the coming decades. The words of Sergei Sobyanin caused applause in the audience.

However, Mr. Gref insisted that AI has valuable advantages: it is able to identify absolutely implicit patterns and, in accordance with goal-setting, make the most optimal decisions. This technology is developing: generativity and emergence have appeared – the ability of a system to generate something new, not typical for any of its components.

“I also agree that in the coming decades this is impossible and unnecessary in public administration, but the fact that in corporate governance we are under the strongest threat is for sure,” German Gref noted. “I think that the emergence of new tools that have become to exercise the function of emergence, has threatened our bright abilities, which seemed indispensable.

According to German Gref, there is no need to be afraid of this, we need to move in this direction and use this tool for self-improvement and building competitive systems, including creating a competitive economy and state.

“If you ask AI in a competitive economy whether pensioners need to raise their pension, it will answer: “You don’t need to pay at all,” Sergei Sobyanin noted. German Gref again disagreed with him, believing that everything depends on why AI is used. If the goal is to maximize the budget and not spend it on anything, then such an answer is probably possible, and if the task is to distribute the budget most fairly, then no one will do better than AI: there will be an honest and even distribution without personal preferences. “Still, AI would say what justice is,” the mayor of the capital reacted. Applause broke out again in the hall, this time accompanied by laughter.

According to another participant of the session, and. O. Rector of the RANEPA Alexei Komissarov, who tried to reconcile the positions of opponents, the “figure” will come to the state administration and will be actively used there. Nevertheless, despite the ability of AI to replace a lot, a person will find his worthy place in the world, and perhaps it will be even more interesting than it is now, he believes.

“I think that not even a person will find his place in the world, but AI,” Sergei Sobyanin replied to this.

“Did you deliberately arrange the seating arrangements?” – asked the Deputy Prime Minister, White House Chief of Staff Dmitry Grigorenko, who had the role to complete the dispute, at the moderator of the session (the official sat between the mayor of Moscow and the head of Sberbank). Of course, Sergei Semenovich is right in his own way, and German Oskarovich, he noted. According to Dmitry Grigorenko, a machine can replace a person somewhere in half. “Obviously, the machine is already ready to change process things, and this happens everywhere: both in public administration and not in public administration. It is unpleasant to realize, but it is a fact,” he said. However, regardless of the relationship, a “digit” is a tool, the same as, for example, a hammer or a microscope, the official emphasized. The last one can also hammer in nails, but a person will do it, and the question to him is why he took a microscope instead of a hammer. “So in the short term, I think it’s (decision making.— “b”) is impossible without a person. And we have a team of people in the government that makes decisions with these tools. How effective is probably another discussion. But without a person, all this simply does not work, ”he summed up.

Venera Petrova

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