Andrei Kolesnikov about how Sergei Shoigu reported to Vladimir Putin about the capture of Avdeevka

On February 20, Russian President Vladimir Putin met with Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu in the Kremlin. Kommersant special correspondent Andrey Kolesnikov talks about how they reported to each other about the capture of Avdeevka, and about how to stop the non-existent nuclear arms race in space.

It’s not very often that you witness such conversations as Vladimir Putin had with Sergei Shoigu in the Kremlin. It is obvious that the Supreme Commander-in-Chief attaches great importance to the capture of Avdievka. But this was the case when reality even exceeded expectations.

“Sergei Kuzhugetovich,” the Supreme Commander-in-Chief addressed the Minister of Defense, “we are here with you (that is, in Vladimir Putin’s office.” A.K.)… You, I, Chief of the General Staff (Valery Gerasimov.— A.K.),—February 17 it was… We separated early in the morning, at four o’clock in the morning.

That is, they, as usual, decided and planned. In these words, for those who imagine the general picture of Mr. Putin’s activities, there was a direct indication that he was making it clear: yes, we get together like this all the time, and even if we don’t get together, then we just talk. He himself deals with this on a daily basis, and there is nothing special about the fact that they separated at four in the morning. Except that now only at some point it began to seem that Avdeevka was it. And that it could be ours. That’s why we sat there for an especially long time that night.

— And then you reported that the situation in the Avdeevsky direction was developing quickly, you even said, rapidly… let’s see what happens in the next few hours. So, we stopped there… Probably rightly so. “They reported all this carefully,” said Mr. Putin.

And the story was detailed, with the mention of names that had not previously been encountered in public speech and by the Supreme Commander-in-Chief himself.

— As far as I understand, and as Andrei Nikolaevich reported to me the day before yesterday (Colonel General Andrei Mordvichev, commander of the troops of the Central Military District.— A.K.), at about six or seven in the morning the enemy began a chaotic retreat from this settlement,” Mr. Putin continued. “And already… it was what time, eleven, right?.. You were here again (in the Kremlin.— A.K.) together with the Chief of the General Staff and reported that this chaotic flight was taking place in Avdeevka. By this time, as I understand it, the leadership of the Ukrainian armed forces issued an order to withdraw its armed forces when they were already on the move and leaving this populated area.

That is, they almost did not diverge. Or rather, they separated and met again. Who won the battle? The one who met and led. That’s how it works.

“As I understand it,” said Mr. Putin, “this was done for political reasons, in order to cover up this move and give it the appearance of such an organized conclusion.” We see and know that this is not so, that it was in fact an escape – in the literal sense of the word – Vladimir Putin wanted to record this moment. – As I already said, Andrei Nikolaevich reported to me the day before yesterday about what is going on there at the moment. moment in time was happening.

“Almost ten days before, we talked with the commander of the assault group of the Veterans volunteer detachment,” said Sergei Shoigu, “who carried out, in my opinion, a unique operation, passing through a pipe to the south of Avdievka, going behind enemy lines for almost three and a half kilometers and, in general, establishing a fairly significant bridgehead there, to which the rest of the troops then fought their way for another three days…

Sergei Shoigu laid out a map and showed in detail what happened and how.

— At the time of my report to you, at eleven o’clock in the afternoon, Koksohim (Avdeevsky Coke and Chemical Plant) was liberated.— A.K.)… There is movement to the west, there is movement from the south, from the southwest… As for the orders regarding the organized withdrawal of troops (Ukrainian. – A.K.), we started working in this direction actually two months before today, and objective control of the delivery of strikes and the movement of enemy troops both day and night was established… So, everything that happened that night and the following , and before that… Unfortunately for the enemy, this has been recorded by us. Not on purpose! – Mr. Shoigu assured. “We had to control it so as not to hit empty areas.”

That is, when necessary, control results will be found. Here they are, nothing to hide. It’s just such a job.

“We carried out very specific targeted strikes,” continued the Minister of Defense. “We have had about 460 such strikes every day in the last 24 hours when the enemy left this territory… If we talk in tons and kilograms, then that’s about 200 tons flying every day.”

No, by all indications, shell hunger is not observed.

“The enemy, when leaving, left many wounded,” the minister added, “a lot of weapons were abandoned… Since the exit was chaotic, there were no specially mined objects. What I would like to draw your attention to is that this fortified area was created over the course of nine years. Day after day, underground passages and concrete structures were made, special lines were made so that one could move without going to the surface… So the fact that the enemy’s resistance was broken here is a great success! — Sergei Shoigu could not resist the everyday tone he adopted. “And a lot depended on whether we would give the enemy a break for at least some time.”

“You remembered about veterans,” the Supreme Commander-in-Chief perked up. “In this case, this is a special situation.” The diameter of this pipe, as they reported to me, is ten meters, in my opinion… Twenty meters… And the men there are walking along this pipe, not knowing where to go…

We must hope they knew, otherwise it all just bordered on suicide.

— We went… Over three kilometers… We went to a virtually unknown place, captured 19 buildings, held them for several days… And there were losses… This, of course, is a special page in the history of military operations in Russia in general when defending its interests … Therefore, I ask you to pay attention to them…

That is, of course, they will all be rewarded.

“This is certainly a success, I congratulate everyone,” said Vladimir Putin. “We need to develop, this is also an obvious thing, but development must be well prepared… But we will talk about this separately… And so every day with you we’re talking about this score…

Yes, this is already clear.

Then they discussed the settlement of Krynki, a Ukrainian bridgehead on the left bank of the Dnieper for several months. So, judging by what the Supreme Commander-in-Chief said, he no longer exists. Not only as a populated area (this has been happening for a long time), but also as a springboard for Ukrainian troops. Two comrades were now making it clear that there were still four or five people wandering around here, but simply because they didn’t know where to surrender.

— I confirm the report of Colonel General Teplinsky (Mikhail Teplinsky, Colonel General, Commander of the Airborne Forces of the Russian Federation, he has been commanding in this sector for some time now.— A.K.), – Sergei Shoigu nodded, – this is true. The caps have been cleaned. We stood all along the coast…

“The enemy is carrying out absolutely reckless actions from a military point of view…” said Mr. Putin. “It’s like a trap… But they climbed and climbed… But be that as it may, these reckless actions may be repeated.” Therefore, I ask you to keep this in mind.

– This is a one way road! – the minister seemed to exclaim in bewilderment.

Or assured the Supreme Commander.

It seemed that the topic of the meeting had been exhausted. But it turns out there is another one.

“There is one more question,” said Mr. Putin. “It concerns the noise that has been rising recently in the West, including in the United States, about the deployment of nuclear weapons in space.” Our position is clear and transparent: we have always been categorically against the deployment of nuclear weapons in space. On the contrary, we call not only to comply with all agreements that exist in this area, but also propose to strengthen this joint work many times over. But now, for some reason, in the West this topic is being raised again, and on a highly emotional note. How do you explain this?

In fact, Vladimir Putin himself has already explained a lot. It is no longer clear who actually started to escalate things first. It all started, as you know, with a closed briefing in the American White House. But where did the White House briefing begin? Did he have a real reason? Or at least any reason why the United States would have to remember that there are areas where it is forced to reckon with Russia, so to speak, eye to eye, and where it is necessary to continue to negotiate if no one wants the situation to get out of here too -under control – but no one seems to want this to happen here, and even, God forbid, now.

— Vladimir Vladimirovich, I want to say first… Or… First of all, this is not the case! – stated Sergei Shoigu, and here, unlike even the stories about Avdeevka, every word was important, and he understood this for sure. – Secondly, they know that we don’t have this.

Sergei Shoigu has now actually made it clear that Russia cannot place nuclear weapons in space, even if it wants to. Why? But because we don’t have it.

This is what came out of his words.

“Thirdly…” Sergei Shoigu continued, but then Mr. Putin interrupted him:

“They know that we have no deployment in space.

That is, he corrected his colleague. We have something. There is simply no accommodation. It is not posted. There is no desire for accommodation either. But apparently it may appear.

— Placements in space! – the minister immediately agreed. – Placements in space! That’s exactly what I mean!

And this may be enough.

— There is no application (apparently, no plans for application.— A.K.) any other elements of nuclear weapons via satellites or the creation of fields that will allow effective operation via satellites… – the minister continued.

What do we not have? Nothing. At the same time, everything is there.

– That is, this is not the case. They know that we don’t have this,” Sergei Shoigu continued to press his point. “But nevertheless they make a fuss. The surprise is different! The amazing thing is that everyone knows what we have!

Yes, it is already clear to everyone that we do not have what we have.

— And you openly spoke about this in 2018 in a message to the Federal Assembly, virtually to the whole world. They know that we are at a fairly high stage of completing work on both Poseidon and Peresvet (in 2018 – still at a fairly high stage, by the way.— A.K.), both on “Burevestnik”, and on “Sarmat”… On “Avangard” the work has been completed. Two regiments are practically in service, on combat duty (may I ask, what does “practically” mean? No? Oh well.— A.K.). For some reason they don’t talk about it. And this is exactly what they should have been afraid of. Most likely they don’t talk about it because they don’t have it. The reason for the fuss, in our opinion, is two things. The first: to scare senators and congressmen in order to promote and push through the allocation of those funds that are supposedly aimed not only for Ukraine, but in order to confront Russia and inflict a strategic defeat on it. Well, secondly, this is a situation in which they would like to resume and encourage us, already clumsily, to dialogue on strategic stability (on strategic stability.— A.K.). Most likely this.

Sergei Shoigu did not look like a person who would now drop everything and enter into a dialogue on strategic stability. He looked like the man who took Avdeevka.

“As for space, in space we only do what other countries, including the United States, have,” Vladimir Putin expressed himself even more carefully. “And of course, you are right: they know about it.” But as for negotiations, we have never been against negotiations!

Vladimir Putin loves this and knows how to repeat it.

“We have always been for negotiations,” he added. “This also applies to the Ukrainian direction… And as for strategic stability (this still had to be said correctly.” A.K.), then here too we have never given up dialogue. But, of course, to pretend that the United States or the West, on the one hand, are calling for the strategic defeat of Russia, and on the other hand, they allegedly intend and want to negotiate with us on strategic stability, believing that one issue is not connected with the other… Well , this will not be possible.

Well, that was the whole point.

The spiral is twisting, admittedly, more and more violently.

“If they seek to inflict strategic defeat on us, then we must think about what strategic stability means for our country,” said the Supreme Commander-in-Chief.

That is, we may have something there that we don’t have.

Andrey Kolesnikov