Natalya Dabizha keeps the original Shapoklyak from Kachanov’s film

At the festival of animation and literature “Pushkin and …” in the A.S. Pushkin Museum-Reserve “Mikhailovskoye”, Natalya Borisovna presented her films “About a Fisherman and a Fish” and “The Love Story of a Frog” in the first retrospective after the death of composer Gennady Gladkov, and also “The Barber of Seville,” commissioned by a British studio based on Rossini’s opera of the same name and Beaumarchais’ comedy, and “Abraham” from the “Old Testament” cycle. Bible stories”, made with artist Nina Vinogradova, who, like Natalya Dabizha, devoted her life to puppet animation.

In the 1990s, the nine-episode project “The Old Testament. Bible Stories” was presented at the Whitehall Palace in London. Six films were created by Russian directors at the Christmas Films studio, and three by their British colleagues. As an animator, Natalya Dabizha also took part in the Shakespearean collaboration cycle, having worked on Stanislav Sokolov’s The Winter’s Tale and The Tempest.

She brought Shapoklyak to the Pushkin Mountains, the same one from the cartoon by Roman Kachanov. The appearance of this doll in people always causes incredible excitement. Everyone wants to hold her, touch her, take a photo with her. They probably wouldn’t have been so happy about Cheburashka either. At the exhibition dedicated to the artist Leonid Shvartsman, who invented the images of Shapoklyak and Cheburashka, which takes place in the Underground Museum of Zaryadye Park, Natalya Borisovna can be seen on the screen. She demonstrates the principles of working in puppet animation using the example of the characters in the cartoon “38 Parrots,” where she also worked with Leonid Shvartsman. We see her hands touching the puppet character, who comes to life before our eyes. Dabizha was the production designer of the film “38 Parrots. How to treat a boa constrictor” by Ivan Ufimtsev.

— Your Shapoklyak is not the only one, is she? How many are there?

“It was given to me by director Roman Kachanov, with whom I worked on three episodes of the film about Crocodile Gena and Cheburashka – “Cheburashka”, “Cheburashka goes to school”, “Shapoklyak”. For each episode we made two Shapoklyaks. I don’t know where they all live. I got one. I don’t have Cheburashka.

— I saw another Shapoklyak at the Soyuzmultfilm exhibition in St. Petersburg. They met somewhere else.

— There was most likely a copy at the Soyuzmultfilm exhibition. We were going to make a sequel to “Cheburashka”, and I wrote the script and made a storyboard. We made houses, dolls and Shapoklyak too. Apparently they took off her uniform and just repeated it. Both Gena the Crocodile and Cheburashka were also made for our film. These are new dolls. There are no old ones at Soyuzmultfilm.

— At “Pushkin and…” you presented films based on biblical history and classical opera. Is there anything beyond the art of animation?

– In my opinion, you can do anything. It is important to find a style and language. If you are making a film in dynamics, then, probably, puppet animation, as it is more material, may turn out to be heavy for eccentric movements. When a character is drawn, he is stretched out and flattened, so priority goes to him. But if psychology is needed, then the drawing recedes, because a flat character on the screen will not convey the state of the hero. He can’t hold a close-up for long. But the doll will survive. If the acting and timing are exactly right, the doll will withstand almost any emotion. This is why she is valuable. When she thinks and freezes, you believe that she is thinking. It is very difficult for a drawn character to achieve such an effect. Although “Bambi” is so touchingly made that there are emotions there. Everything is possible despite it. And in a hand-drawn cartoon you can play psychology, but in our case hand-drawn animation is inferior to a doll in psychological nuances.

– Because the doll “breathes”?

– Certainly. And this is attractive. Puppet animation is very well represented at Western festivals. And our students want to do it.

– This is amazing. I heard from your colleagues that young people don’t want to engage in puppet animation.

— All over the world there is a craving for dolls. I think people are tired of the plastic that comes from the screen, from 3D. Of course, there are good 3D films, but there are still a lot of artificial and dead films. And the doll is always alive. Even if it is dirty, there is a naturalness to it. This is a very necessary profession, which, unfortunately, is going away, almost gone. It needs to be revived. I do what the guys bring me, I watch, I edit. An outside perspective is always important. I suggest where you need emotional support, so that a certain state, a thought is recorded, so that there is no tongue twister.

— Is working with a doll painstaking? Is it more difficult than hand-drawn animation?

– No. The time is the same. The costs are the same. Dolls have the charm that you shoot and immediately see the result. When you make a hand-drawn picture, you work in stages. First you make a black cartoon, then you draw it, add color… But here I played it, and the doll immediately became alive, and this is its attractiveness. Anyone who starts working with a doll, as a rule, becomes a fan of it and does not go into another genre. I love dolls.

— Does the doll lead you? Can the original plan be changed?

– Like Pushkin? Tatyana, who got married, but Alexander Sergeevich did not expect this from her? This happens too. But it also happens differently. It seems to you how great you are shooting, everything works out, but in the end it turns out to be complete nonsense. You can work automatically, not feel the scene, and suddenly it turns out to be alive. One day I accidentally turned the doll’s head to the side. What to do? There were no video controllers back then that would allow you to see the last frame. I positioned the head from memory, and the “injury” turned out to be unnoticeable. This was a miracle for me.

— You worked a lot with literary works. Do your students make film adaptations?

– Yes, but not very often. They work in different genres and use different technologies. I don’t force anyone into any framework. I make my films on a literary basis, based on what literature has already given me. Although I wrote many scripts from scratch, I did not film them. Students also want to do everything themselves. And it’s a difficult task to come up with a story that will be a film. I already have three students in my group who have good stories, and I’m sure they will make good films.

-Are you keeping up with them? They are young, impetuous, and probably interested in innovations.

– No, I don’t have that feeling. The main thing in a film is the idea, the thought that is embedded in it, the emotional impact on the viewer. I always see where this is missing, and act as an editor in such cases.

– Some girls are probably studying?

– Yes. It’s difficult with boys. They are lazy and work slowly.

— They probably don’t really want to get into animation?

– They strive. I just don’t take them. I’m afraid. I had a bright student, but every year I wanted to kick him out. He didn’t show up, didn’t work, only brought something at the last minute. Some people think that they already know everything and don’t want to listen to anything.

— Is it difficult today for those who are just coming into animation? Does anyone even need them?

— In general, animation is in demand. Another thing is that not many directors are required. But you can be animators, artists, assistant directors. Some of my graduates at Soyuzmultfilm work on TV series, on Orange Cow. I ask them: “When will you make an auteur film?” They answer: “They give very little money for auteur films.”

– What about ambitions?

— Ambitions have decreased. More pragmatism. It seems to me that young guys want to survive, have a salary and live in peace. My student made a wonderful movie “Airship of an Unknown Destination.” She was invited to all festivals. She received prizes. She had an unfinished diploma, and she worked as an animator at Prostokvashina. They pay normal money that you can live on. VGIK is also five years of stress, after which the guys want to relax. There was a period of balanced life, when people were eager to go somewhere, dreamed of jumping out of stagnation, of realizing themselves in something extreme. Now, on the contrary, many want peace and stability.

“Isn’t this strange for young people?”

– Why strange? They don’t know what will happen tomorrow. These are such uncertain times. Young people are not sure about the future, they ask: “Will we have work?” I answer: “I don’t know which one, but it will be.”

— Do you like teaching? Does it require crazy amounts of energy?

— I like making their films together with students. In this way I also realize myself, I don’t stagnate. The first course is not an indicator. It must be experienced. I have a large group – 21 people. That’s a lot. Last year they increased the number of budget places to 15, and there were 8.

– Does everyone really live to see graduation?

— There may be 8 out of 13 people at graduation. Someone drops out. When I work with students, I analyze each scene in detail. For five years I have been immersed in their work. And if you have 20 people, then it’s difficult. At first, I even hid in the dining room when a line lined up for me and everyone came with their own handwriting. Now it has become easier. The guys started working on their own.

— We watched two of your films, made together with a British studio. What grandiose projects are the “Old Testament”, Shakespearean and opera cycles.

— I was pleased with today’s viewing. I realized that the schoolchildren were surprised that this was possible in our animation.

— In the 90s, you did what they see today in American cinema.

– Why did the British come to us? Because they understood that we would do well. They brought money, and we did everything. Then there was a collapse in money. People scattered, some to trade, some where. Christmas Films and producer Elizaveta Babakhina saved the animation. Low bow to them. All the artists and directors gathered and got work – some Shakespeare, some opera. We all worked then.

— Did you encounter any professional difficulties on a foreign project?

— The British demanded better quality than we had. They gave us control of the last frame, which delayed the work somewhat, but took it to a new level.

— Explain to the uninitiated what control of the last frame means?

“It becomes possible to look at what has already been filmed, previous frames, and then you can analyze whether it is necessary to speed up the movement or not. Previously, we shot by feeling, without controlling how it would turn out.

— When you handed over the finished material to your British colleagues, did you have to redo anything?

— Anything can happen in creativity. The British did not want to stage an overture in The Barber of Seville. How can you do without it? I did it anyway, and it set the tuning fork for the film. It was impossible to fit all the arias and parts into 30 minutes, and this also had to be solved somehow. But this is a creative process; it cannot be called a conflict.

– But everything was tougher than ours?

– More demanding. But this raised us to another qualitative level. It was interesting. Serious work, which also mattered to each of us. This was not an order, but a joint production. Three animation cycles were then made with the British – Shakespeare, Cartoon Opera, and The Old Testament. There was also a full-length film “The Miracle Worker”, which was made by Stanislav Sokolov. We were equal. The British invested money, and we invested our strength. We made dolls. Some of them were later taken away. I still have some left. I would like to exhibit this entire collection for a long time, so that viewers can come as if they were visiting a museum.

— Were not only Russian directors working then, but also British ones?

— Stanislav Sokolov shot “The Miracle Worker” with Derek W. Hayes, who did hand-drawn inserts. And we did all the puppet part. It was the right move, although the hand-drawn animation looked less expressive than the puppets. But it was impossible to assign the entire hour and a half footage to the doll. It would be difficult for the viewer. The hand-drawn animation diluted the picture a little. There was also a project “Tales of the Peoples of the World”. I did a Dutch fairy tale, someone else a Russian one. The directors got mixed up and filmed fairy tales from countries other than their own. It was also an interesting job that saved us then.