“A single application is the dream of any developer”

In the next two years, the Russian authorities plan to allocate 6 billion rubles from the budget. for the construction of 2.3 thousand fast electric charging stations (ECS) for electric vehicles. The president of Sitronics Group spoke about why IT companies are striving for this segment, the vision for the development of the sector and plans to produce EZS in an interview with Kommersant. Nikolai Pozhidaev.

– Do you see the need for a single application for EZS?

— We ourselves are the developers of one of these applications, and it works successfully. A single application is, of course, the dream of any developer. But there are very large players on the market who are unlikely to want to outsource their application somewhere. That is, a single application, it seems to me that this is a very long road in the dunes. Therefore, roaming looks like a very sensible solution.

— How do you see it? Through roaming hubs?

– Over time, this will come to roaming hubs. This is a technological issue, quite easily, I think, solvable, but still it will be the next step.

And the first stage will be when simply different operators agree to exchange data with each other, as in telecom. Roaming will start working when there are several charging stations within a radius of 500 m in the city and several kilometers outside the city, then the best software, the most convenient, will win, then the owners of the EZS will begin to transfer control to OCPI hubs (information exchange using the OCPI protocol.— “b”).

Should this be regulated at the state level?

— This is a natural commercial process, it does not need to be regulated at all. In my opinion, even tariff regulation of roaming, unlike telecommunications, will not be required here.

— Are you already negotiating with operators about roaming? How much do you want to withhold from the payment of the charging session?

— We have already developed an OCPI gateway for a long time, and we are negotiating with several operators about mutual roaming. We are not yet ready to announce the commercial terms of roaming agreements.

– You were called a contender for the development of a unified platform for monitoring the operation of the EZS, which is being developed by the Ministry of Energy. What are we talking about?

– This system is more informational than a control system through roaming. The task of this system with a given efficiency is to obtain data on the operability of stations for the installation of which a subsidy was received, because according to the rules for granting a subsidy, it is necessary not only to install an EZS, but also to ensure its operability. Sitronics Group is primarily an IT company, so, of course, we are ready to develop such a system. The most important thing in this system is not just to store data and generate reports, but to receive direct data from networks and identify hidden problems, for example, a station failing to reach a given capacity due to internal problems. The station for many operators can “glow green”, but in fact not all power modules are operational, such situations must be identified. We already have algorithms that allow us to do this.

– Will the platform be developed for budget money?

– Now there is no talk about this yet – the idea itself and the possibility of its implementation are being discussed. We are ready to develop the platform. At the same time, we have extensive experience in EZS: without false modesty, we are the only ones who work on all types of infrastructure from 22 to 600 kW, from electric vehicles and electric buses to electric ships. For example, if the Ministry of Energy or someone else says that they are ready to pay for it, we will not refuse.

– Returning to OCPI: as far as we understand, the initiator of the implementation of this particular protocol is Yandex?

– It’s not that they are the initiators, it’s just that Yandex’s business model is built on this. They themselves do not have chargers, and the protocol that is sewn into the software is important to them, and they just sell it.

– OCPI is not present at all stations now?

As far as I understand, not at all. Now the EZS operator services market is in its infancy, unfortunately, many operators software developers do not have a developed OCPI gateway, and sometimes they do not even fully implement the functions of the OCPP protocol, but this is normal at the very early stage.

— Do you have any ambitions to start production of EZS?

We definitely have ambitions. We are even investing in the development of our own charging stations, but we went not from light ones, but from heavy ones. We now have stations for 300 kW, 600 kW, which charge ships and electric buses. We are now opening a test site in St. Petersburg and will continue to develop towards production. There are more and more manufacturers of stations for electric vehicles, but the quality of implementation of charge controllers leaves much to be desired. That is why at the end of last year, in 2022, we decided to develop our own EZS, and first of all, our controllers and low-level software.

We understand for sure that we will not be alone in this market, because a huge number of companies have these business models. If our colleagues like our hardware, software, we will be happy to sell.

— How many do you plan to produce EZS?

– Today we produce about 20 “heavy” chargers per year, tailored for the development of electric shipbuilding. When we enter the market for electric vehicles, I think it could be up to a hundred units per year and even more. You see, in charging, the power plant is not really difficult, the layout is important so that it cools well so that its controller works well with electric vehicles. An important role is played by self-diagnostic software tools, which will be important for remotely located charging stations.

– “Heavy” stations have a capacity of 300 kW or more?

– 300–600 kW. Our charging stations for ships are powerful enough.

Is this segment already paying off?

— Everything depends on us to a greater extent: the larger the fleet of electric ships, the more profitable this business will be. We have a long contract for river transport for 15 years. The faster we build ships and the sooner they start to carry people on them, the faster this business will pay off.

– Why do you have so few EZS for electric vehicles (50 pieces. – “Kommersant”)?

— You see, we are an absolutely commercial company and we are determined to ensure that our investments return. We measure the growth rate of infrastructure with the growth rate of the number of electric cars on the roads and we want them to stand not just beautiful, white, but to be charged by people. There is no task to flood the whole country with gas stations today, and then sit and wait for five years for electric cars to finally arrive.

— What is your margin on average in the cost of charging for end users?

– The operator’s margin can be easily calculated in your mind: the service tariff minus the cost of electricity, minus rent, maintenance and insurance, communication and acquiring services, and the depreciation of the station itself. If we count just charging sessions, the margin is no more than 10%. It’s just that now there is no point in talking about it at all, because the margin arises on the volume. There is no volume.

— What limits the growth of the car park? Prices, offers from EZS?

– In my understanding, there are two factors today. This is the attitude of people towards electric vehicles. Some people think that you can’t get far with them. And the second story, in fact, is the price. Because the price of electric cars is still higher than the cost of a gasoline engine, although it is gradually approaching the price of cars with internal combustion engines. The subsidy for the purchase, which is currently in effect, helps, however, since this year it has decreased by a third in volume per car, and we would like to see back up to 935 thousand rubles, because efficient electric vehicles cost up to 3 million.

And so, I believe, the availability of the network for owners of electric machines has already been created. We now have a covered path from the Finnish border to Sochi, and this is without stopping by the networks of other operators. And there are also networks of colleagues from Rosseti and other companies. Today, from St. Petersburg to Sochi on an electric car, you can safely drive without fear that you will get stuck somewhere on the road without charging.

– The head of the Moscow department of transport, Maxim Liksutov, in February, at a strategic session with First Deputy Prime Minister Andrei Belousov, offered a subsidy for electric vehicle manufacturers of 1 million rubles. What are we talking about?

– We talked about the manufacturers of electric vehicles – it existed last year and was about 1 million rubles. Now it has been lowered, and, accordingly, there was a request from virtually all participants to return the amount.

– That is, it was about the return of discounts for concessional lending?

– Yes. The whole market asked to make the same amount as last year. Even from the point of view of technical connection to power grids, Maxim Stanislavovich said that, firstly, it is expensive, and secondly, it takes an extremely long time. Based on the experience of Moscow, he showed time intervals for both river and electric transport, and his proposal was to limit the time for technical connection to 45 days. There were many ideas on how to calculate the TP economy in general, including the proposal to guarantee the obligatory loading of the point – not below such and such a percentage, and then the cost of connection falls due to the tariff.

— To what extent do EZS operators and manufacturers of electric vehicles need to cooperate? While it seems that they communicate little.

– This is actually a false impression. We do all major contracts for the transition to electric traction together: we go to the customer together, we work out the technical requirements together, we select equipment for the night/day charging infrastructure together.

— Many market players criticized the EZS subsidy program for excessive requirements for a 150 kW plant capacity within the city and for a GB/T connector. How do you feel about these options?

“Look, we are looking at different consumption patterns. And what is 150 kW? This is ten minutes maximum. Here, imagine, there is such a situation when you jumped out of the car for about ten minutes in the city center to a pharmacy. While you missed three people in the pharmacy and bought yourself pills, your car was already charged by 80%. It’s good.

– Do you see the point in concentrating on putting more and more EZS at gas stations?

— We do that. A person, when he goes on a long journey, logically calls in there, goes and buys himself coffee, a hot dog or something else. Relatively speaking, the station should be located next to the infrastructure. Here is a working model of consumption. If the EZS will stand in the forest, then it will be visited less.

— There are no problems that oil companies have started to install charging stations at their gas stations?

— And they bet themselves, and we bet to them. Everyone understands that the energy transition will happen sooner or later on a massive scale, and they are preparing for this. This is fine.

— Is it realistic to install a charging station within the city limits in Moscow or is it possible only through the Energy of Moscow program of the city?

– In Moscow, without Energy of Moscow, we have our own charging stations, for example, in the parking space of shopping centers. If this is private land, not burdened with any obligation towards Moscow, why not.

Interviewed by Olga Nikitina and Polina Smertina