“We especially appreciate that Russia respects our sovereignty”

— Mr. Tunkara, how do you assess the results of the summit? Who came to St. Petersburg from Mali, besides you? Did the international meeting live up to expectations?

— Representatives of many African countries are satisfied with the results of the summit. From our country, President Assimi Goita, three key ministers (foreign affairs, defense and finance), two members of parliament including me, rectors of all Malian universities and major figures from the business community, from the chairman of the Chamber of Commerce and Industry to representatives of agriculture, came to the summit.

I took part in the part of the summit dedicated to education – this is one of the key areas of cooperation, as well as in the round table on economic interaction.

Our task was to show the attractiveness of Mali for Russian investors. As a member of the External Relations Committee of the Mali Parliament, I met with representatives of the State Duma. There may be a substructure in the Duma dedicated to relations specifically with Mali.

— What do you personally remember about the summit?

— Because there was no uniform dress code, although the guests were from countries with very different national cultures. Journalists were interested in this diversity, and they even compiled a rating of the participants’ costumes. I worked at the summit in the familiar Malian “bogolan” attire. This is a completely traditional costume, but at the end of the summit it was named one of the most original.

— What other results did your visit to Russia have?

— Before the summit, I was invited to give a report at the first Russian-African conference of the Valdai Club. Representatives of nine countries of the African continent that are most important for Moscow spoke there.

— What did you talk about in Valdai?

— I named the most promising areas of cooperation: security, lawmaking, business, higher education, scientific and technical research, cultural exchange, diplomatic relations. Finally, building a unified media space. It is absolutely necessary for us to receive information about each other directly, and not through Western media. And, of course, I spoke from the position of a representative of the Republic of Mali. That we understand that Russia has long become an important part of our life and culture.

– Why the Russian Federation?

– The Soviet Union built infrastructure in Mali and created many jobs. The USSR and Russia have carried out enormous personnel work: since the middle of the last century, about 10 thousand of our citizens have received education from you. And that includes representatives of today’s national elite.

Even I myself am in some sense a product of cooperation between the Soviet Union and Mali. I graduated from Peter the Great St. Petersburg Polytechnic University.

We especially appreciate that Russia respects our sovereignty. Most of our population, and especially young people, hope to cooperate with your country.

— Are Russian language and Russian literature studied in Mali? Have the cultural and scientific connections built in the past been lost?

— Russian in Mali is studied quite well, since there are specialists who receive higher education in the Russian language. These teachers, in turn, go on to teach children in secondary school. Many of our people can say at least basic words: “good afternoon”, “good evening”, “thank you”, “hello”.

— Tell us about the culture of Mali, music, ideas. How do postcolonial powers look for new ways of development, and what experience do they rely on?

“Our original culture was very distorted.

During colonization, we began to study French as a state language. There was a time when it was believed that if you don’t speak French, you are illiterate. And this despite the fact that our people wrote and read Arabic.

And the influence of Christianity and Islam was significant. At some point people started to be more Muslim than Malian.

And we began to think like this: if we live, then in our own way, so that our laws correspond to ourselves. That is, a partial return to the old days began, when Mali was a powerful historical cultural center of Africa. We wanted the constitution that we will have to be guided by the Charter of Kurukan-Fuga (an ancient code of laws of the Mali Empire of the 13th century – I.V.). This is our history, our ancestors in the 13th century described how we should all behave and exist in society.

— What is the state of relations between the Republic of Mali and France?

— After the colonial era, we remained dependent on France for a long time. Although it was considered a partnership, we actually worked for them. Today we look at this experience in Mali with a critical eye. French influence and French heritage in Mali are diminishing and will continue to disappear.

Our people have long guessed that France is not the partner that allows us to develop, but only to live better.

— Why, in this case, did they not immediately make a rupture?

— We doubted it because we received help from Paris. But we realized that this help is like a drug so that we cannot think. The big mistake of their policy was that they protected Mali from jihadists. Frankly, we are beginning to understand that the French authorities themselves created these terrorists. Because we couldn’t do anything about them – and the situation is only getting worse.

— What was the inaction of the French military command?

“They sent our soldiers (during anti-terrorist operations) forward, while they themselves hid… There are a lot of facts proving that the French did not help. Even when the UN arrived, it only got worse.

— Couldn’t the Malians themselves defeat the militants?

— After the declaration of independence, we formed a strong army because the USSR helped us. We received a huge amount of weapons. However, since 1991, France and the West have financed our disarmament. We sold weapons cheaply to countries like Libya. All our politicians of that time, our president, were “outsiders.”

And at some point a situation arose when graduates of Russian universities, those who worked in the national economy, key specialists, decided to get rid of French pressure.

France as our main partner has not justified itself.

I will say more: the core of their foreign policy has “broken” here in Africa. This was understood in Mali and throughout the continent – every day we now see new manifestations of the desire for independence.

And it will be even cooler. We need to get them out of here…

— Tell us about your years of study at Leningrad University. How did you perceive Russians and how did Russians treat you?

— When I studied in the Soviet Union, I saw that Russian people love their country very much. Yes, there are some contradictions, but even if a Russian criticizes the authorities, he has a limit.

They say that in Russia you can encounter manifestations of racism. I’m a black man. When you date a stranger, you can expect anything. But, in general, the attitude is good.

When Russian teachers teach you, they try to make sure you understand everything well. And the better you study, the more they like you, they give you more and more. And this knowledge allows you to become the first in your field in your homeland.

— What is the semantic content of the concept “African diaspora”? How many Malians live in Russia? Why was there a need to unite?

— The Malian community is several hundred people.

On the basis of the Malian diaspora, we once created the organization “African Unity” in St. Petersburg, which dealt with the integration of Africans into Russian society.

We considered everyone who had African ancestry to be African, including children from mixed families.

And wherever I went, I always considered myself a “black Russian.” We even have a term – “Afro-Russian”.

What was I fighting for? For the power of my homeland, the state where I am, for making it easier for Africans in Russia.

— Mr. Tunkara, what do Russians need to do to understand and let Africa into their hearts? Are Africans similar to Russians in terms of mentality and habits?

— I will try to illustrate the answer with examples of people who have had Africa in their hearts for a long time. Nikolai Sosnovsky (Africanist, musicologist, writer – I.V.) had such an understanding of our people, played African musical instruments so well – it’s just a fairy tale.

I will name the names of the writer and anthropologist Igor Sid, deep experts on Africa from St. Petersburg Valentin Vydrin and Andrei Maslov, my mentor in the field of protecting the interests of Africans Nikolai Girenko.

And there was another outstanding Africanist, ethnographer Vladimir Arsenyev. He was very well versed in the main language of Mali – Bamana (Bambara). I don’t know if there is anyone in Mali who has written more about our mother tongue than him. We called him G Coulibaly (a common name among the Bamana people). Arsenyev often repeated that there is much in common between Africans and Russians: hospitality, similar morals.

In St. Petersburg we had a park where African music was constantly played – people did not get out of there for hours, this place became a point of acquaintance and communication. And here in Mali, in the “Russian House”, the Malians celebrate Maslenitsa together with the Russians.

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